on September 3, 2010 by admin in Constitution, Federal Government, United States, Comments (34)
Amendment 10
On 9/3/2010 1:02 AM, Gray Ghost wrote:
> DanielSan
> news:x66dnSW8poQA4h3RnZ2dnUVZ_hidnZ2d @&*$?%speakeasy.net:
>
>> On 9/2/2010 5:16 PM, Gray Ghost wrote:
>>> DanielSan
>>> news:EoSdnSzz__gJYOLRnZ2dnUVZ_g4AAAAA @&*$?%speakeasy.net:
>>>
>>>> On 9/2/2010 12:32 PM, RD Sandman wrote:
>>>>> DanielSan
>>>>> news:aqKdnXB4a9wceeLRnZ2dnUVZ_t6dnZ2d @&*$?%speakeasy.net:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 9/2/2010 8:20 AM, Beam Me Up Scotty wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Where is there unlimited authority to spend taxes?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Are you serious?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hmmmm, same answer Pelosi gave when asked if the Constitution gave the
>>>>> feds the power to mandate everyone had to buy health insurance or,
>>>>> possibly end up in prison.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The bill specifically states no criminal charges may be filed for
>>>> refusing to get health insurance.
>>>>
>>>> But, since health is an enumerated power in the Constitution….
>>>>
>>>
>>> So health is an enumerated right? Why has no one noticed that for 200+
>>> years. Please cite chapter and verse. Oh and don’t forget all rights are
>>> subject to limitations.
>>
>> It’s part of the general welfare clause.
>>
>
> Um, I do not see the word health there. Perhaps my copy is missing it. The
> General Welfare clause like the ICC has been used to twist the Constittion
> well beyond it’s intended purpose. and I propose that those who don’t get that
> should have no place in the government.
>
The “general welfare clause” is limited to the Federal Government’s welfare.
The United States is the Federal Government as referenced throughout the
constitution.
here is where it says “the United States” is *NOT* the States or The
People. Amendment 10 separates “the United States” from the others given
powers and rights in the constitution, because the United States is the
Federal Government.
Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor
prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively,
or to the people.
All that brings context to the Article 1 Section 8 where they say the
WELFARE CLAUSE is nested. but here is the actual words and you can see
that “WELFARE” has a limitation on it, which is limiting it to the
welfare of the Federal Government(United States Government)….
Beam Me Up Scotty
September 6, 2010 @ 7:47 pm
So Obama did raise our taxes? As we all knew he would?
That means Obama lied about taxes too…. and GITMO and…
Beam Me Up Scotty
September 6, 2010 @ 7:56 pm
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Only when they have no power to pass laws on an issue like Education.
Beam Me Up Scotty
September 6, 2010 @ 8:21 pm
Beam Me Up Scotty
September 6, 2010 @ 8:21 pm
Beam Me Up Scotty
September 5, 2010 @ 2:19 pm
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The problem is how far will you let the scam go…. while you say
education isn’t in the constitution, I say that the “welfare clause”
that you are dissecting, is also being inserted where it doesn’t exist.
You say education doesn’t exist in the Welfare clause and I say the
welfare clause doesn’t exist for the States or the People.
The welfare clause was written into a section that is *exclusively*
*dealing with the Congress and Federal government* and it specifically
has a qualifier attached to it to limit it to the Federal
government(United States).
It is the WELFARE OF THE UNITED STATES “GOVERNMENT”.
The congress is being charged with paying the for “the bills”, “the
Defense” and “the WELFARE” of (States) or (People) or (Federal government)
It’s The “bills,defense,welfare” of the Federal government.
Beam Me Up Scotty
September 5, 2010 @ 5:01 pm
It is like *RELIGION* …the Federal government has to keep it’s hands
off and education is the same, while not specifically enumerated, the
lack of powers given are identical to the federal governments
restrictions on Religion.
The fact the constitution doesn’t list every thing the Federal
government can’t do is not an issue, since amendment 10 says everything
NOT listed, is a list of things the federal government can’t do.
Beam Me Up Scotty
September 5, 2010 @ 5:07 pm
NOT the Federal government and NOT the states….
just like my right to keep and bear arms, a right of the people.
Beam Me Up Scotty
September 5, 2010 @ 5:25 pm
*powers not delegated to the United States*
They say “the several states” when they refer to the States.
*delegated… by the Constitution*
*are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people*
Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor
prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively,
or to the people.
Beam Me Up Scotty
September 5, 2010 @ 6:10 pm
NOT the Federal government and NOT the states….
just like my right to keep and bear arms, a right of “the people”.
This would mean that the same people that have a right to keep and bear
arms are “The People”
Beam Me Up Scotty
September 4, 2010 @ 2:24 pm
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Yep you know, like government employees watching porn rather than
working… are misusing their employers. It’s NOT in their JOB
description.
Beam Me Up Scotty
September 4, 2010 @ 2:49 pm
I don’t claim to be right 100% of the time or to be Mr. Personality….
I *do claim* that our government is out of control.
Beam Me Up Scotty
September 4, 2010 @ 12:55 pm
This is one of the most dangerous/ignorant statements I have ever seen.
To begin with the 10th amendment refutes that…. Congress can’t fund
State political campaigns any more than they can fund fashion police.
Allowing unlimited power to fund is stupid and to start with the
constitution says;
[To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use
shall be for a longer Term than two Years;]
That is a limit on the term that they can fund the Military. So they
can’t do anything.
[No Money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in Consequence of
Appropriations made by Law; and a regular Statement and Account of the
Receipts and Expenditures of all public Money shall be published from
time to time.]
[The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts
and Excises, *to pay* the Debts and provide for the common Defence and
general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and
Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;]
It says *to pay* and then lists what to pay. I don’t see the word “ANYTHING”
Beam Me Up Scotty
September 4, 2010 @ 11:57 am
Being forced to buy something is a tax….?
Can I then be “taxed”(forced) to buy porn?
To carry it further…. churches are taxed, does this mean I can be
forced(taxed) to donate to a church.
If I can be forced to BUY/GIVE my money to a business/charity then
taking into account that taxes are also placed on Churches then *taxes*
*transcend* the *Separation of church and State* which means that I
could be taxed(forced) to give my money to a specific Religion. Just as
I am being forced to give to a specific type of insurance company?
Beam Me Up Scotty
September 4, 2010 @ 12:30 pm
Amendment X
*The powers not delegated* to the United States *by the Constitution* ,
nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States
respectively, or to the people.
Not only aren’t they enumerated, they just don’t exist.
Congress’ General welfare powers has zero to do with the people or with
the States. The founders knew that the Federal government would only be
concerned with the “General Welfare” of the Federal government and that
was what they wrote. The founders limited the Federal government
knowing that limiting congress would serve everyone’s “General Welfare”
Otherwise the States have zero autonomy and are simply federal
jurisdictions, since the Federal Government can claim “General welfare”
and usurp any State powers. The constitution is worthless if you grant
congress unlimited power via “General Welfare”
In essence you are saying that we have NO States, they are just subjects
of the all powerful Federal Government.
You have thrown us back 1000 years to feudalism.
Beam Me Up Scotty
September 4, 2010 @ 11:02 am
NOW that’s a tough one? we aren’t giving powers to a LAND or
territory…. it is speaking of only one supreme government entity so
it’s not a family of Nations…
I’ve got it, it must be “states which are united by and under the
Constitution” you know, the Federal government.
And then we can put it in context too… Why would the FEDERAL CONGRESS
pay the DEBTS of the States or the People.
In fact States tax the people to pay their own debts.
If we were being taxed by the Federal government to pay other States
Debts than the State we live in, we would be paying tax for debts we
have no representation for. Isn’t that the same as Taxation without
representation if we are taxed and not represented on the expenditure of
that tax.
Beam Me Up Scotty
September 4, 2010 @ 10:40 am
Correct….
The word Welfare is in the preamble and in Article 1 Section 8
In the first case “the preamble” it is a mission statement saying why
the constitution is being written;
[We the People of the United States, *in Order to form* a more perfect
Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the
common defense, *promote* the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings
of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, *do ordain and establish*
*this Constitution* for the United States of America.]
SO it is NOT a power or even what the constitution is supposed to
include, but what “the document” as a whole accomplishes. That means
that this document and NOT the parts of it….. promote the general
welfare. The document as a whole is there to limit tyranny and
government power.
Limiting government power *PROMOTES THE GENERAL WELFARE*
The document its self is doing these things, where in the document does
it address *secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our
Posterity* It doesn’t because it is what the document is supposes to do
overall.
There is also the FACT that *PROMOTE* is not the same as *PROVIDE*
As for Article 1 Section 8
[to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare
of *the United States* ;]
*The United States* is the Federal government.
[Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor
prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively,
or to the people.]
Beam Me Up Scotty
September 4, 2010 @ 9:25 am
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It means NOT the Federal government and NOT the States.
Beam Me Up Scotty
September 4, 2010 @ 9:32 am
Amendment X
*The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution* ,
nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States
respectively, or to the people.
So the Feds have zero power delegated on many many many items of our
life, and those “powers” NOT delegated to the FEDS are given away to the
States or the People…….
If the federal government isn’t given *the power* then they need to do
as NANCY PELOSI says, “sit down and shut up”.
Beam Me Up Scotty
September 4, 2010 @ 10:14 am
The “right” to keep and bear arms is not a mandate….
having the right does not require that you exercise it.
The burden is on government to allow the exercise of the right.
AS OPPOSED TO;
Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers,
and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, *shall not*
*be* *violated* , and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause,
supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place
to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
THIS is a law directed at the Government, that States it can’t be
violated. *shall not be violated*
Which means the government and you have no choice in the execution of
this law, just as you have no say in a murder case, the law is the law
and must be followed with or without your approval.
In Short, “you” can’t waive the government’s need to follow the
constitution.
And the constitution requires them to get a warrant.
Beam Me Up Scotty
September 4, 2010 @ 9:11 am
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You have to appropriate money to fund them and for that you need
constitutional powers to allow you to constitutionally create funding laws.
You have no money to buy a chair for that “Department” to set their fat
a&*$?%s in.
They also have no constitutional powers…. they can’t write a
regulation or hire any people or do anything, that makes them the
perfect government Department….. all talk.
Amendment 9 comes to mind here.
Amendment IX
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be
construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
You can’t use the “creation” of a Department name to steal a right
retained by the people.
Beam Me Up Scotty
September 4, 2010 @ 9:18 am
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Notice that congress tries to assume the power with money and
manipulation, that is because they have no Constitutional authority.
Well… they also have no power to create an appropriations bill to
spend money on education, they just don’t have the constitutional power.
It’s another politicians lie that Congress has unlimited power to spend,
the constitution limits their power to spend just as it limits all other
powers. Congress is embezzling money and misappropriating it.
Congress needs to be sent to prison.
Beam Me Up Scotty
September 4, 2010 @ 9:01 am
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How can Congress *fund* the department and pass an appropriations bill
for education when they have *no authority* anywhere in the constitution
over education.
Having an unfunded education department, or “Federal Department of
Clothing Fashion” does NOT mean that the Federal government suddenly
has the power to fund the Fashion police. And then regulate us so that
we all have to wear little Mao Suits and look like good little socialists.
Beam Me Up Scotty
September 3, 2010 @ 4:26 pm
When you delete 99% of what I gave you and then reject the 1% you quote.
It means you aren’t interested in what I say but more interested in what
you say.
Beam Me Up Scotty
September 3, 2010 @ 2:23 pm
General welfare of “the people”?
General welfare of “the States”?
General welfare of “the Federal Government”?
They don’t all have the same needs and what is to the benefit of one may
likely be detrimental to the others.
That is the whole point of the Constitution.
Beam Me Up Scotty
September 3, 2010 @ 3:41 pm
So congress is given the task of “pay the Debts and provide for the
common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; ”
And the United States is *THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT* I’d say they are an
ORGANIZATION wouldn’t you?
*Congress happens to be failing at providing* the Prosperity of the
Federal Government.
Beam Me Up Scotty
September 3, 2010 @ 4:08 pm
“the United States Government”
The government that isn’t the State governments and it’s also NOT the
people. You can’t give power to “the United States” and reserve those
powers to the States and the people all at the same time. Clearly the
United States is NOT “THE NATION”
Here this may help with what it is NOT.
Amendment X
The powers not delegated to *the United States* by the Constitution, nor
prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively,
or to the people.
Section. 8.
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts
and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and
general Welfare of *the United States* ; but all Duties, Imposts and
Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
This clearly separated the United States from the States and the People.
Beam Me Up Scotty
September 3, 2010 @ 11:15 am
The truth is always the truth.
Stuff your head in the sand, it looks good on you.
Beam Me Up Scotty
September 3, 2010 @ 11:17 am
Have the government Kill all the Fascists, herd them into concentration
camps.
Beam Me Up Scotty
September 3, 2010 @ 11:32 am
You used “health” and I said cite…….
I can cite where Arms are referring to guns in the constitution and the
dictionary.
Beam Me Up Scotty
September 3, 2010 @ 9:15 am
They are generally Democrat-Socialist….
There is the Socialist movement that believes there are no
constitutional limits on government spending/redistributing our money.
Beam Me Up Scotty
September 6, 2010 @ 10:14 am
I don’t believe I said that…. but you did.
The people have all the powers/rights not given to the Feds or the States.
Just Like they have the ones enumerated that are given to the people.
There are two ways that a power can be delegated
(A)It can be enumerated as given to the Federal, State or People.
(B)It can be NOT mentioned, in which case amendment 10 becomes the
controlling law.
Beam Me Up Scotty
September 6, 2010 @ 1:12 pm
If you buy the insurance you have been extorted.
Beam Me Up Scotty
September 5, 2010 @ 12:08 pm
No I am taxed and send money to the government who spends it….. I’m
speaking of being forced directly by law, to buy health insurance from
an insurance company.
That makes it legal to force me/you by law to also buy porn from a
pornography corporation. *I like that little blond* , I think her name
is Jenna… what is her porn corporate name so I can keep it on file
for the new set of 2500 pages that require we buy porn to reduce the
nations sexual dysfunction, everyone needs to participate to keep the
costs low, both the afflicted and non afflicted. Just like the
health-care plan is the BLUEPRINT for a successful program to fix the
NATION. The Obamacare blueprint says that everyone must participate,
both the sick and the healthy to keep costs low, so too will sexual
dysfunction be combatted with the new 2,500 page Sexual Health bill in
congress. All your sexual Files will be kept in an all new electronic
government created DATAbase for easy access.
So I am right, Obama can also force me/you to buy porn if he so desires,
just as he now forces me/you to buy insurance. So what company will I
buy my mandated porn from when it is required so that I don’t have the
IRS trying to enforce the laws and fines on me?
Club/Penthouse/Playboy What will be the requirements and who will meet
the Government standards so that my porn will fit the legal requirements.
Beam Me Up Scotty
September 5, 2010 @ 1:47 pm
Amendment 10 says it…. Because no power over Education was delegated
to the Federal government, it is therefore a power given to the States
or the People.